I'll chat with you in English.

1 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:17:46.63 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

I will chat in English for a little while.

2 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 16:19:17.09 ID:aZ+WChij.net

what kei americajin are you?

3 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:20:10.89 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

I am American, yes. I am from Philadelphia. Where are you from?

4 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 16:21:04.12 ID:yCWFBkR9.net

I'm behind you.

5 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:22:07.44 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

There's a wall behind me. I'm in bed. Good try. ;)

6 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 16:25:49.75 ID:yCWFBkR9.net

what about your answer to >>2
s/he is asking about your origin like chinese-american.

7 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:35:53.20 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

ID:aZ+WChij

I am white. I didn't know what -kei meant, oops!

8 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:38:36.51 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

>>6
Oh, I figured out how to reply. I am white American.

9 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 16:42:15.42 ID:yCWFBkR9.net

i like tv dramas of states...whats best for you

10 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:44:27.10 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

>>9
I like House of Cards and Game of Thrones. What are your favorite American TV shows?

11 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 16:45:13.34 ID:aZ+WChij.net

>>5
a dead body might be buried in the wall.

12 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:45:43.16 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

>>11
So that's what that smell is.

13 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 16:48:37.75 ID:yCWFBkR9.net

ahh i know them from the news of emmy award but i havent watched them
i like suits n i watch under the dome these days

14 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:49:35.25 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

>>13
I haven't seen those, but I hear Suits is good. What is it about?

15 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 16:55:55.31 ID:YVFY0AT3.net

>>14
How long is your dick? I heard white people have longer penises.

16 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 16:57:23.47 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

>>15
0 inches. I'm a woman. How big is your dick?

17 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/28(月) 17:03:13.25 ID:YVFY0AT3.net

>>16
Oh that's unexpected and disappointing because I have big cocks.

18 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 17:05:51.64 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

>>17
There are many other places to find big cocks!

19 ：777 ：2015/09/28(月) 17:12:15.42 ID:LFDSn05T.net

>>1
What do you think of this person's English?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/31594488/sakuraikeizo.mp3

20 ：Jess：2015/09/28(月) 17:25:16.03 ID:AhKuXE19!.net

>>19
I don't like the passage. It looks like it's from a racist poem. Is it copypasta?

If not, the pronunciation is pretty good, except "warlord" and "geography."

21 ：777 ：2015/09/28(月) 18:19:37.64 ID:LFDSn05T.net

>>20
Thanks.
I think it's his own opinion.
I'm surprised to hear that his pronunciation is pretty good.
I thought it's very bad.

22 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/29(火) 12:52:22.33 ID:TttCGXZF!.net

>>15

6 inches is average.

23 ：Dreas：2015/09/29(火) 12:54:23.46 ID:TttCGXZF!.net

>>19

I don't wanna be debbie downer but his english is horrid.

It's slurred and lispy- grammar and vocabulary are at least decent but he sounds
as if he's chewing food while talking.

24 ：777 ：2015/09/29(火) 15:49:27.61 ID:WozQK3s8.net

>>23
Thanks for your opinion.
I'm almost certain that you're a native speaker of American English.
The phrase "I don't wanna be debbie downer" is very American.
I actually had to google about it.

Debbie Downer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debbie_Downer

25 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/29(火) 19:49:44.97 ID:RzhJ213+.net

>>24
no, he is korean.

26 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/30(水) 01:26:14.53 ID:INknGw3q!.net

>>24

Yup, I am. I try to help with English on
This board. That phrase was probably a
Dead giveaway :/


If you have other questions I can help.

27 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/09/30(水) 11:16:02.34 ID:sCrbfxy/.net

>>1
Hi, Jesse. Welcome aboard! So you're a Caucasian American nicknamed
"Jesse." I had thought it was a male-only name. But you said you're
a woman. I said to myself, "What?!" So I googled the name and found
that it was a name for men and women as well.

The poster at >>2 was actually asking you what kind of hyphenated American you are.
I mean, are you Italian-American, Swedish-American, German-American,
or what? If you prefer not to specify, then you have the right
to remain silent. Anything you say here on 2-channel may be
used against you in court or in front of Darth Vader.

As a nonnative English speaker, I welcome you warmly because
we learners of English are in dire need of instructive inputs
on the English language and the cultures of the English-speaking
world from native speakers like you.

Anything you may say here will be very useful to us. I hope
you'll enjoy being with us, as much as we enjoy being with you.

28 ：777 ：2015/10/01(木) 11:45:12.99 ID:e8GTPbH6.net

>>26
"If you have other questions I can help."

Which sentence do you think is more natural,

"Today, I performed *in* the TV show 'Music Station Ultra FES'"

or

"Today, I performed *on* the TV show 'Music Station Ultra FES'"?

Thanks.

29 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/01(木) 16:33:35.75 ID:GQHVHQSv.net

ニュアンスも含めて訳せばよっし俺はこれから君とチャットするぞ　って事
これはスレタイとしておかしいだろ

30 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/01(木) 20:14:45.27 ID:bcP3Sf5e.net

Looks like the original poster has vanished into thin air
or is temporarily busy elsewhere.

If you guys are interested, I would like the rest of us
to talk to one another until Jesse makes her glorious comeback.

I hope this thread will become a platform somewhat different
from "Chat in English," where people talk mainly about sex
(especially gay sex), food, and politics (especially atomic bombs,
xenophobic ideas, and anti-Korean sentiments).
The problem is, what do we have in common? What are some of the
things that interest all of us? Are you, for example, interested
in novels and movies?

31 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/01(木) 20:35:24.93 ID:PFmdIEO3.net

>>1
ふ〜あ〜ゆ〜？

32 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/01(木) 21:02:08.23 ID:PFmdIEO3.net

あいあむじゃぱんにーずきもぶさいえろーじじいもんきー

33 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/01(木) 21:14:33.93 ID:PFmdIEO3.net

あいらぶほわいとがーる
ほわいとがーるいずべりーベリーライクあるよ
ほわいとがーるいずアンダーヘアーもじゃもじゃニダ、えんゆー？ｗ

34 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/01(木) 21:23:36.52 ID:PFmdIEO3.net

ほわいとがーるはぶベリーびっぐ ばあーぎーな

あいしんくほわいとがーるずはぶびっぐばーぎーなとうブラックホールｗ
イゲモエヨ？ブラックホールニダｗ

35 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/01(木) 21:32:30.92 ID:PFmdIEO3.net

あいはぶつうべりーびっぐごーるでんぼーるあんどえれくとちんこｗ
まいがーるふれんどえぶりでいはっぴいニダｗ

36 ：臭い米国人：2015/10/02(金) 06:17:15.81 ID:ZA6coDlM!.net

>>30
Maybe this thread is to be exclusively chatting with us foreigners?
I feel like that was the OP's original intention.

>>31-35
イイカゲンニシロ！

37 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/02(金) 13:58:03.56 ID:fVJe4PtT.net

>>36
You just called yourselves "foreigners." I thought the word offended
all non-Japanese. Doesn't it offend you? In any case, some people from
abroad do seem to dislike the word anyway. To avoid hurting anybody's
feelings, I usually use either of the following, depending on the case:

　　　(1) a non-Japanese, two non-Japanese
　　　(2) a person or people from abroad (OR from outside Japan)
　　　(3) international students (if they are students)
　　　(4) tourists from abroad (OR from outside Japan)

What words or phrases would you suggest we should use? Thanks.

38 ：臭い米国人：2015/10/02(金) 21:39:43.74 ID:ZA6coDlM!.net

>>37
It depends on the person, but from how I feel I'll leave you with this:

If you know the person's nationality, you can usually say it.
"Foreigner" isn't offensive if it's said in English.
If it's said in Japanese, then it feels somewhat offensive to use to a stranger.

-HTH (Hope this helps)

39 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/02(金) 21:50:22.85 ID:fVJe4PtT.net

>>38
Thanks for your input. I know that if I know a specific person's nationality,
naturally I'll call them with an adjective denoting their nationality.

The problem is, what is the safest way to call a person or a group of
persons from abroad whose nationality or nationalities you don't know?
Do the phrases in (1) through (4) at >>37 work? Are they idiomatic?

I often have to translate official documents and translate what
Japanese people refer to as "外国人" into English. And they never let
me know what their nationalities are. I don't want to use the
word "foreigner(s)" for fear that the word may offend some, if not all.

40 ：Dreas：2015/10/03(土) 02:32:26.91 ID:3HFZqzR+!.net

Gaijins here. Can't talk at this instant but I'll be here in a few hours.

41 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 06:47:54.40 ID:nchJmikO.net

Welcome back, Dreas! Your responses are always valuable, just as
those of 臭い米国人.

42 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 14:40:27.45 ID:so7URBmL.net

... And then there were none.

Okay, then, let me write a bit if nobody has time to pitch in.
Even if no one reads what I have to say, I will talk to myself anyway.

About six months ago or so, I read "Romeo and Juliet" in the original.
As just another Japanese, I naturally found it hard. But I tackled it
anyway. I'd always thought it totally indispensable for serious
learners of English to try Shakespeare in the original. Everybody
knows why. Shakespeare, together with the King James Version of the
Bible, constitutes a vital part of the English-speaking culture.

Okay, then, why R&J, why not "Hamlet" or "The Merchant of Venice"
or "Macbeth"? Well, I think I'll tackle all other works of Shakespeare
in the end, but I thought that it was a good idea for an almost
absolute beginner of Shakespeare to begin with R&J. Why? I found that
it had a plot most accessible to beginners. It's simple: it's well
understandable even to junior high students. The plot basically
revolves around Romeo and Juliet, falling in love despite the
outrageous rivalry between their respective families. Desperate,
they kill themselves in the end. That's about it. It's not as
complex as "Hamlet," "Macbeth," or other works, most of which
center around adult themes. (to be continued)

43 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 15:17:03.40 ID:so7URBmL.net

Continued from >>42
When reading literature, I don't care too much about its plot.
If I did take any interest in plot, then I would start reading
detective novels, sci-fi, or other best-selling novels.
Instead, what I care more about is the rhythm and the beauty
of the language used in the literature. I love language because
of its musicality. I personally believe that there is nothing new
under the sun. No novel can present anything new. Nothing a human
can ever conceive is new enough. Even if any story really is
complex and interest, so what? That's what I say. Instead, it's
the melody of the language that matters -- well, at least to me.

Before tackling R&J, I had read "Hamlet" in the original. But I read
it through only in a casual way, I mean, without consulting commentary
books or dictionaries or grammar books designed for readers of
documents dating back to the Elizabethan era. Ah yes, I did consult
the OED and a few notes on the play but only quickly, not very
carefully. So I only got a rough idea of the play.

But this time, with R&J, it was different. I read it rather seriously.
I don't know how long I spent reading it, perhaps one or two months.
For about two to three hours each day, maybe. I constantly consulted
elaborate dictionaries and a grammar book designed for readers
of documents dating back to ancient times. I had close at hand
the famous Alexander Schmidt Shakespeare Lexicon, the well-known Abbot
grammar book for Shakespeare readers, the Onions Shakespeare glossary,
David Crystal's Shakespeare dictionary ("Shakespeare's Words"),
Gordon Williams' Shakespeare's Sexual Language, the Arden Shakespeare
R&J (an annotated R&J), and the Cambridge annotated R&J.
Besides all those, I also had at hand the whole series of the
Arden Shakespeare books. (to be continued on Part 3)

44 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 15:17:45.88 ID:so7URBmL.net

Part 3 (continued from >>43)

Why did I need all that? Well, when reading even a single play,
I thought it was vital for me to read the very long notes of
the Arden Shakespeare R&J. And, while reading it, I found lots of
cross references to many other plays of the Bard of Avon. Naturally
I was tempted to follow all those cross references, which guided me
to most of the other plays by the Poet. And of course, I had to
consult the Elizabethan English grammar (at least a few pages of it,
if not all) and naturally I also had to consult the Alexander Schmidt
dictionary, the OED, and other dictionaries as well.

So I was terribly busy. I thought that R&J was the most accessible
to beginners like me of all the Bard's works. But still, it was
hard enough for me. Despite all my pains, however, my study of the play
was quite rewarding. R&J reportedly contains the most sexual allusions
of all his works. That aspect attracted me a lot too. R&J is beautiful,
full of both high-brow poetry and rather vulgar sexual and toilet
allusions, and very funny too. I wish I could recite the whole play.

I won't stop at R&J either. I will read many other plays by the Poet
too, if possible, all of them. I wish that, in reading and appreciating
the Bard, I would some day in the distant future be able to emulate
some of his brilliant musicality in language and start writing
some poetry myself -- in English too. I suspect that before I can attain
that level, the time will come for me to pass away, though.
The path is way too long.

45 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 16:19:46.38 ID:hbTukXyW!.net

>>42
>>43
>>44
Okay, now read either the Canterbury Tales or Beowulf in the original.
true beauty.

46 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 17:34:01.42 ID:czPH39gW.net

>>45
Yes, I'd like to try them both some day. But there's a long way
for me go to before I can arrive there. Naturally I've once tried
reading some passages of The Canterbury Tales in the original
and read Beowulf through in its modern English translation.

I'm afraid that at that time at least, twenty years ago or so, I was
not yet ready to appreciate them. I'll try them again one day, at least
Chaucer in the original. But Beowulf? I've once tried studying it,
but Old English grammar is too complicated to master. Yes, it may
not be much more complicated than modern French, but still it's hard
enough, especially because Old English doesn't attract me as much as
modern French. Modern French is used everywhere in the world,
while Old English is rarely found anywhere. It's almost useless, so
that it's rather hard for me to keep motivating myself enough to
keep studying it until I master at least its basic grammar. If I were
still young and at school, I'd find a lot easier to spur myself
on to do all that. But now, it's really hard.

But then again, I also know that Old English, as well as modern German
and Old High German, as well as all the other Germanic languages,
especially ancient ones, proves very important when you want to have
a profound understanding of English. I love the comparative linguistics
of Indo-European languages, although I've never got formal education
in the field. All I've ever done in that field is reading this book
and that and reading the etymological descriptions of this word and
that. In any case, I wish I knew more of ancient languages, including
Latin, Greek, and Old English.

47 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 18:35:40.20 ID:Rvbe1WlX.net

Okay, then, let me try reading a few lines of "The Canterbury Tales."
I've just hand-copied the following passage, together with some of the
notes given in my annotated version of "The Canterbury Tales."
Middle English is much more removed from modern English than Shakespeare
but it's still not completely unintelligible. It looks a lot easier
than Old English. But still, I'm positive that it will take me a long,
long time to learn to appreciate Chaucer. But so far, so good.
Although I don't understand it very well, I find his rhythm beautiful.

48 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 18:38:19.06 ID:Rvbe1WlX.net

Fragment I (Group A)
GENERAL PROLOGUE
Here begynneth the book of the Tales of Canterbury

　　　WHAN that Aprill with his shoures soote --- soote = sweet
　　　The droughte of March hath perced to the roote,
　　　And bathed every veyne in swich licour
　　　Of which vertu engendred is the flour;
5　　 Whan Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth -- eek = also?
　　　Inspired hath in every holt and heeth
　　　　　　--- inspired = quickened? holt = wood? (cf. German Holz = wood)
　　　The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne --- croppes = shoots?
　　　Hath in the Ram his half cours yronne,
　　　And smale foweles maken melodye, --- foweles = birds
10　　That slepen al the nyght with open ye
　　　(So slepeth hem nature in hir corages); --- priketh = incites? corages = hearts?
　　　Thanne longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,
　　　And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
　　　To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;
15　　And specially from every shires ende
　　　Of Engelond to Canterbury they wende, --- wende = go
　　　The hooly blisful martir for to seke, --- blisful = blessed? seke = visit?
　　　That hem hath holpen whan that they were --- holpen = helped
　　　seeke.　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　--- seeke = sick
　　　Bilful that in that seson on a day,
20　　In Southwerk at the Tabard as I lay --- lay = stayed?
　　　Redy to wenden on my pilgrymage
　　　To Canterbury with ful devout corage,

　　　　　　("The Canterbury Tales," Everyman's Library, p.1)

49 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 18:50:29.82 ID:Rvbe1WlX.net

>>48
lines 3-4
　　　And bathed every veyne in swich licour
　　　Of which vertu engendred is the flour;

[Translation of the above by Everyman's Library]
　　　And bathed every sap-vessel in moisture,
　　　by virtue of which the flower is produced.

lines 7-8
　　　the yonge sonne
　　　Hath in the Ram his half cours yronne,

[Translation by Everyman's Library]
The young sun (i.e. the sun at the beginning of its annual journey)
has completed the second half of its course in the Ram.

50 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 19:14:02.08 ID:Rvbe1WlX.net

>>48
lines 13-14
　　　And palmeres for to seken straunge strondes,
　　　To ferne halwes, kowthe in sondry londes;

[Modern English translation by Everyman's Library]
　　　And palmers to visit foreign shores.
　　　To distant shrines, well known in different lands.

line 14 --- ★kowthe★
This word "kowthe" should mean "well known." This is interesting.
Here's what I've just found out in the OED:

★couth (adjective)
Pronunciation: /kʊːθ/
Forms:
　　　Old English: cuth
　　　Middle English 14th century: couthe, kouth
　　　Middle English 15th century: kowth, ●kowthe●

★couth
†1. pa. pple. passing into adj. ●Known●.
Obs. (See also namecouth adj.)

†2. adj. As a quality of things: ●Known; well-known, familiar●.
Obs. Cf. the negative ●uncouth● adj.

　　　(Oxford English Dictionary, Second Edition)

51 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 19:32:25.78 ID:NHIp38+D.net

あああああああああああああああああああああああああああああああああああ
























おおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおお 👀
Rock54: Caution(BBR-MD5:558464d2692f088d1d43d68e7664e878)

52 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 19:39:02.34 ID:Rvbe1WlX.net

>>48
These 22 lines from The Prologue of "The Canterbury Tales" is
read aloud in its original pronunciation on YouTube:

(1) How to Pronounce the General Prologue to the Canterbury Tales
in Middle English Slow to Fast! (about 7 minutes)
　　　--- This video demonstrates very slowly how to pronounce each word
　　　　　in its original pronunciation. Very helpful to those who
　　　　　want to actually practice the pronunciation.
　　　　　　　https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXMypzdWxsc

(2) Chaucer, The General Prologue to the Canterbury Tales,
read aloud in Middle English. (about 1 minute)
　　　-- This is a very beautiful recitation.
　　　　　　　https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lGJntNFFqo

53 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/03(土) 20:50:46.63 ID:Rvbe1WlX.net

>>48
line 5
Whan Zephirus ●eek● with his sweete breeth

eek = also
★Eek, conj. also,
C2, C3; æc, S; ec, S; ek, S, S2, P; eik,
S3; eke, S, S2, S3, P; eeke, G.—AS. éac: ●Goth. auk●.
(Middle English Dictionary)
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10625/10625-h/dict1.html#letter_E

The above dictionary entry says that this word "eek" means "also."
It also indicates that the word resembles the Gothic word "●auk."
It is also quite similar to the Modern German word "auch" (also).
This is very interesting.

54 ：Dreas：2015/10/04(日) 00:10:14.85 ID:SSToHFMI!.net

>>26

That, is an idiom. Idioms are phrases or
Sentences that crop up in a culture. This
Means that how the phrase is said will
Differ from place to place and there is
No real way of saying what's grammatically
Correct, of at least in this example.
This means we can only answer what is
Correct in street or vernacular English,
And in this example, both are.


So, you could use either one!

55 ：Dreas：2015/10/04(日) 00:12:36.13 ID:SSToHFMI!.net

Oh bollocks, >>54 was supposed to respond to >>28

56 ：Dreas：2015/10/04(日) 00:20:03.63 ID:SSToHFMI!.net

>>38

Fuck, thus is getting into strange
territory. By all logic it should be fine,
But the world is not a logical place.you
Could skirt around the issue by saying
Something like "people from other
Countries". Adapting that to whatever role
You feel is right.

Shoot me some examples, I'll tell you
What to do.

57 ：777 ：2015/10/04(日) 00:52:18.97 ID:MEBP1Tr/.net

>>47
Anthology of Tales from the Past
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konjaku_Monogatarish%C5%AB

This was probably written in the 12th century, i.e. about 200 years older
than the Canterbury Tales.
The following text is a part of a story in the anthology.
I'm not well versed in classical Japanese literature,
but I understand most of it without annotation.
I think most educated Japanese people understand it as well.

今昔物語集
http://yatanavi.org/text/k_konjaku/k_konjaku26-2

今昔、京より東の方に下る者有けり。

何れの国郡とは知らで、一の郷を通ける程に、俄に婬欲盛に発て、女の事の物に狂(くるふ)が如に
思ければ、心を静め難くて、思ひ繚(わずらひ)ける程に、大路の辺に有ける垣の内に、
青菜と云ふ物、糸高く盛に生滋(おひしげり)たり。十月許の事なれば、蕪の根大きにして有けり。

此の男、忽に馬より下て、其の垣の内に入て、蕪の根の大なるを一つ引て取て、
其れを彫(ほり)て、其の穴を娶(とつぎ)て婬を成してけり。然て垣の内に投入て過にけり。

其の後、其の畠の主、青菜を引取らむが為に、下女共数(あまた)具し、亦幼き女子共など具して、
其の畠に行て青菜を引取る程に、年十四五許なる女子の、未だ男には触れざりける有て、
其の青菜を引取る程に、垣の廻を行(あるき)て遊けるに、彼の男の投入たる蕪を見付て、
「此に穴を彫たる蕪の有ぞ。此れは何ぞ」など云て、暫く翫ける程に、皺干(しわび)たりけるを
掻削(かいさい)て食てけり。然て、皆従者共具して家に返りぬ。

58 ：777 ：2015/10/04(日) 00:58:19.24 ID:MEBP1Tr/.net

>>54
Thank you, again.

59 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 01:50:16.05 ID:V+Zn64nj!.net

>>57

You are remarkably well read. Are you the guy I called highbrow-kun
Before?

60 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 03:45:00.63 ID:V+Zn64nj!.net

>>30

I study language, text, history and physics.

In my spare time I play games and do aircrew stuff.


What do you do?

61 ：臭い米国人：2015/10/04(日) 05:22:34.26 ID:iNNt8R45!.net

>>39
We have a saying in English:
"You can please some of the people some of the time;
but you can't please all of the people all of the time."

The only one I find a bit odd is (4), I'd honestly just say tourist.

If my previous post didn't make sense, calling somebody a foreigner in English is pretty much okay.
But if you say ガイジン、 then it feels a bit wrong.
It's the pronunciation, not the meaning.

>>42
I usually only read the threads in the mornings here, which is around 10-11 pm there.
As >>59 commented, you're quite well read.
I studied Middle-English for a bit for fun, the only thing I read was The Greene Knight though.

For the Canterbury Tales, I found an interactive annotated version online if you'd like to take a look:
http://genius.com/Geoffrey-chaucer-the-canterbury-tales-general-prologue-annotated


>>56
Was this meant for >>39, because as my name says I'm American, bro :)

62 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 06:59:29.72 ID:n9TKM6ft.net

>>61
>>The only one I find a bit odd is (4), I'd honestly just say tourist.

Thank you for your input. The reason I wrote
"tourists from abroad (OR from outside Japan)"
as an option is that there are Japanese people living
in Japan who are on a trip inside Japan.
If you call anybody a "tourist," doesn't that
concept include "a Japanese on a trip inside Japan"?

That's the problem. Of course, when you're just
having a casual conversation, you don't have to
worry about that kind of thing. The problem arises
when you have to translate official and business
documents, where they often mention 外国人 as
a group of non-Japanese residents and tourists.

Dreas let me know in one of his posts that
it's a good idea to call them "people from
other countries." Yes, I consider that as an
option. But in a long document, people would
wish to use a variety of synonyms to avoid
being monotonous. I'd like to know as many
different words or strings of words to mean
"foreigners" as possible.

In any case, you told me that it's quite all
right to call them "foreigners." That's reassuring
to know. Thanks for your valuable input again.

63 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 07:46:15.47 ID:n9TKM6ft.net

>>48
lines 7-8
　　　The tendre croppes, and the yonge sonne
　　　Hath in the Ram his half cours ★yronne★,

The word "yronne" looks interesting. If I understand
correctly, the prefix "y-" is a corrupt form of "ge-",
which is the prefix often used in modern and ancient
German to form the past participle of a verb. Whenever
I see this "y-" prefix used in any text, I say to myself,
"Oh, this is beautiful. So the passage must be from a Chaucer
or other Middle English text."

Since I don't have a Middle English Dictionary at hand,
I've just searched the OED for "yronne". The quintessential
dictionary says that it is the past participle of the verb
which means "run."

The word "run" comes from Old English "rinnan."
And this "rinnan" (the infinitive form) changed to "ronne" in Middle
English (there is a document that uses the form in the 16th century
at least). This infinitive also changed to "run", just like in modern
English, in the 16th century.

Then the past participle of the verb "rinnan" changed to "yronne"
in Middle English. This kind of information never tires me. The OED
is my beloved. I wish I could ever get to know her through and
through. But I know it's completely impossible. The world of
knowledge is just vast -- vast.

64 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 08:03:24.32 ID:n9TKM6ft.net

>>48
line 5
　　　And smale foweles ●maken● melodye,

And look at this verb "maken". Don't you guys think this verb looks
beautiful? This is exactly like the modern German verb "machen".
The OED says the verb "to make" took the forms of macan, macian,
and makian in Old English. The etymology section of the OED goes on
to say that the verb is cognate to the following:

Old Frisian makia, Middle Dutch ★maken★ (Dutch ★maken★),
Old Saxon makon (Middle Low German maken), Old High German mahhon
(Middle High German ●machen●, German ●machen●);
　　　(Oxford English Dictionary, Third Edition, June 2000)

65 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 08:21:59.03 ID:n9TKM6ft.net

>>48
line 16
　　　Of Engelond to Canterbury they ●wende●,

The verb "wende" here is also interesting. Contemporary English does
have the word "wend." The OED says the verb "wend" comes from the
Old English "wendan". Its past tense and past participle forms were
"went" in Middle English. And these forms "went" were then used as
the past and the past participle forms of the verb "go."

That's why modern English has this inflection pattern: "go - went - went."
This is another thing I've learned today. On the other hand, the
original word inflection pattern "wend - went - went" then had to
change itself to: "wend - wended - wended" to avoid conflicting
with the pattern "go - went - went."

66 ：777 ：2015/10/04(日) 09:43:41.63 ID:MEBP1Tr/.net

>>59
I'm not that well-read.
Most high-school students learn about the anthology.
My point was that the language is not so much different from modern Japanese.

67 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 09:55:47.54 ID:n9TKM6ft.net

>>48
1　　　　　●WHAN that● Aprill with his shoures soote
5　　　　　●Whan● Zephirus eek with his sweete breeth
10　　　　 ●Thanne● longen folk to goon on pilgrimages,

"Whan" and "whan that" mean "when." "Thanne" means "then" according
to the Middle English Dictionary available here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10625/10625-h/dict3.html#letter_Th

The dictionary also says that one Saxon form of "whan" was "whanne."
So "whanne" and "thanne" rhyme. That's good. It's just like in
their modern English counterparts (when and then), which rhyme.

Anyway, as indicated at the beginning of this post, lines 1 and 5
begin with "Whan", which is responded to by "thanne" in line 10.
Here, the basic plot is along these lines:
　　　WHEN such and such a season comes,
　　　THEN lots of people feel tempted to go to pilgrimages.

68 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 10:06:54.49 ID:n9TKM6ft.net

>>66
Talking about the slight differences between the ancient and
the modern forms of a language, I once read through a modern (ancient)
Icelandic grammar very quickly. I read it through but it was rather like
scanning it, without trying to memorize the grammatical rules or words
taught in it. Still it was quite clear to me that modern and ancient
Icelandic are almost identical (Old Icelandic dates back to a
millennium ago, if I remember correctly). The grammatical rules are almost
the same, for one thing. For another, the forms of the words are also
almost identical.

For example, suppose the Old Icelandic word
meaning "word" is "woooorrrddde" (I'm just making it up). Modern Icelandic
is something like "woooorrrddd". The only difference between them is
the absence of the "e" in the modern Icelandic equivalent. Every word
and every grammatical rule were the same way. There's not a single
major difference in any element of the language. It's really amazing
how conservative Icelandic people have been all these years (maybe
for more than a millennium), consciously or unconsciously refusing to
let their language change as did the English and the Japanese.

69 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 10:11:19.08 ID:um9LqYRX.net

ぎゃあああああああああああああああああああああああああああああああああ




















うおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおおお 👀
Rock54: Caution(BBR-MD5:558464d2692f088d1d43d68e7664e878)

70 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 10:28:14.95 ID:um9LqYRX.net

銀1、8250538+1091118＝9341656

銀2、6050827+600582＝6651409

農、4013186+167777＝4180963

銀3、721373+1047060+100000＝1868433

郵、79193

株（予）、1009838
コ255500
日405800
三208900
ク289700
い169200
タ172200
日63200
西357300
中203300


全計25256592

71 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 10:39:21.45 ID:um9LqYRX.net

土地評価額約92000000

家評価額約30000000

別荘売却予定、家+土地評価額2100000



マイナンバー対策予定にて
別荘資産は売却中

その他貸駐車場の土地の売却は考え中

72 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 10:46:48.57 ID:um9LqYRX.net

マイナンバー導入により税金課税対象者



土地+現金（株、地金）等の資産5000万以上保持者は税金を
取られる可能性あり






今から対策しておく必要性あり

73 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 10:49:56.28 ID:um9LqYRX.net

訂正ひとつ




別荘売却予定評価額2100000→21000000

74 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 11:20:04.60 ID:um9LqYRX.net

現在脱税している連中は

マイナンバー制度導入により

全てバレる

脱税だけは絶対にしてはあかん

金持ほど脱税するがあほや

下手したら資産差押さえくらうで〜

そんでもええんか〜

はよ税金だけは納めとき〜

75 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 13:16:16.27 ID:cItiFbDl.net

>>48
11　　　　　(So slepeth hem nature in hir ●corages●);
22　　　　　To Canterbury with ful devout ●corage●,

In the above lines, the word "corage(s)" is used twice. It is used to
mean "spirit(s)" or "heart(s)" unlike in modern English. Etymological
dictionaries say that the use of this word in the sense of "heart" and
"spirit" comes from Old French usage. This Francophonic usage of
the word "corage" is just one of numerous cases where Norman French-derived
words are widely used in the English of old times, more widely than
in today's English. When reading Shakespeare and other old literature,
I very frequently find the prevalent usage of French-derived words.

Old literature also seems to contain more Germanic-derived words
than today's English. Shown below are some examples:

6　　　　　Inspired hath in every ●holt and heeth
9　　　　　And smale foweles ●maken● melodye,
18　　　　 That hem hath ★holpen★ whan that they were

(to be continued)

76 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 13:17:04.99 ID:cItiFbDl.net

Continued from >>75

Note, in particular, the word "holpen." It is the past participle of
the verb "helpen" (or "help" in modern English). The infinitive form
"helpen" is similar to modern German "helfen", while the p.p. form
"holpen" is similar to German "geholfen". I'm not familiar with
Dutch, but I think their Dutch equivalents are even more similar,
or in some cases, completely identical.

In this way, English in the old days (say, during the days of
Shakespeare or Chaucer) contained more Germanic-derived words and
Norman French-derived words than today's English. If that is so,
I feel more tempted to study a little more (if not much more) of
Old English, German, and other Germanic languages, especially
ancient ones.

77 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 13:52:39.38 ID:cItiFbDl.net

Continued from >>76
For the word "holpen," let me say a few more words. The Old English
(or Anglo-Saxon) equivalent of "to help" was "helpan." Here's a list
of the inflected forms of the verb in OE and its relatives.

　　　(1) OE: 　　　　　　　helpan (infinitive) - healp (past) - holpen
　　　(2) Middle English:　helpen - halp - holpen
　　　(3) Modern German:　 helfen - half - geholfen
　　　(3) Dutch, Low German: helpen - hielp (past singular) - geholpen

There seems to have been many variations of each of the above OE forms
but let me just leave it at that to simplify the discussion.

As for the Dutch equivalent of the verb "help", I consulted the
following webpage:
　　　https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/helpen

78 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 14:21:13.05 ID:SSToHFMI!.net

Not well read my ass. You're an artist.

79 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 15:42:54.01 ID:cItiFbDl.net

[The Caterbury Tales]

line 12 --- Thanne longen folk to ●goon● on pilgrimages,
　　(I guess this means "Then people long to go on pilgrimages.")

line 78 --- And [he] wente for to ●doon● his pilgrymage.
　　(I guess this means "And he went to do his pilgrimage.")

The word "goon" in line 12 should mean "to go." It is similar in form
to German "gehen."
　　　German: gehen - ging - gegangen
　　　OE: 　　gan - ??? - ??? (I don't know.)
　　　ME:　　 gon - ??? - ???

The word "doon" in line 78 should mean "to do." It is similar in form
to German "tun."
　　　German: tun - tat - getat
　　　OE: 　　don - dyde - gedon
　　　ME: 　　don - ???

80 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 18:37:46.11 ID:T9sdph3y.net

>>79
What a blunder!

WRONG: 　　　German: tun - tat - getat
CORRECT:　　　German: tun - tat - ★getan★

By the way, the more I work on the English in the old days, the more
keenly I feel the importance of a knowledge of German (and other
Germanic languages) and Russian (and other Slavic languages).
I'm rather familiar with Romance languages (especially French) but
that's definitely not enough when trying to explore the historical
development of the English language.

81 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 20:26:13.79 ID:um9LqYRX.net

a
b
c
d
e
f
g
h
i
j
k
l
m
n

82 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 20:27:16.68 ID:um9LqYRX.net

o
p
q
r
s
t
u
v
w
x
y
z

83 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 20:29:11.25 ID:um9LqYRX.net

ま
い
な
ん
ば
ー
あ
し
た
か
ら
は
い
ふ
さ
れ
る
ぞ
！

84 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 20:32:30.58 ID:um9LqYRX.net

か
え
る
ぴ
ょ
こ
ぴ
ょ
こ
む
ぴ
ょ
こ
ぴ
ょ
こ

85 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 20:33:54.27 ID:um9LqYRX.net

あ
わ
せ
て
ぴ
ょ
こ
ぴ
ょ
こ
み
ぴ
ょ
こ
ぴ
ょ
こ
！

86 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 20:40:12.78 ID:um9LqYRX.net

な
ん
み
ん
も
ん
だ
い
は
ど
い
つ
の
せ
い
？
ド
イ
ツ
だ
よ
ｗ

87 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 21:30:11.33 ID:um9LqYRX.net

ぼ
く
の
な
ま
え
は
ヤ
ン
ボ
ー
き
み
の
な
ま
え
は
マ
ー
ボ
ー

88 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/04(日) 21:32:09.59 ID:um9LqYRX.net

ふ
た
り
あ
わ
せ
て
ヤ
ン
マ
ー
だ
あ
ー
き
ー
み
と
ぼ
く
と
で
ヤ
ン
マ
ー
だ
あ
ー

89 ：臭い米国人：2015/10/04(日) 22:03:02.69 ID:iNNt8R45!.net

>>62

I'm sorry. Even though you said it was for documents I still didn't process it.
Reevaluating your question, there's no harm in saying "tourists from abroad" when it is in writing.


(1) non-native(s)
(2) foreign visitor(s); overseas visitor(s)
(3) exchange student(s)
(4) foreign tourist(s); overseas tourist(s)

Thinking about it as I write this, overseas is used as a synonym for foreign.

90 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 03:34:58.59 ID:/mhv+8k1.net

あ
め
り
か
ん
ご
っ
と
た
れ
ん
と
！
さ
い
も
ん
、
あ
ま
ん
だ

91 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 03:38:44.93 ID:/mhv+8k1.net

お
ど
る
あ
ほ
う
に
み
る
あ
ほ
う
お
な
じ
あ
ほ
な
ら
お
ど
ら
に
ゃ
そ
ん
そ
ん

92 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 03:42:38.89 ID:/mhv+8k1.net

や
め
ら
れ
な
い
と
ま
れ
な
い
ぼ
く
ら
の
わ
い
ん
で
ぃ
ん
ぐ
ろ
う
ど
う

93 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 03:45:30.16 ID:/mhv+8k1.net

ぽ
ん
ぽ
こ
ぽ
ん
ぽ
こ
た
ぬ
き
の
は
ら
づ
つ
み
ぽ
ん
ぽ
ん
！

94 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 03:50:30.31 ID:/mhv+8k1.net

す
ー
ぱ
ー
ま
り
お
あ
ん
ど
す
ー
ぱ
ー
る
い
ー
じ

95 ：Dreas：2015/10/05(月) 04:24:47.22 ID:yhvX++MB!.net

Dreas here. I finally got my keyboard, so if you have any serious questions
about English, America or myself, this is the time.

96 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 06:51:52.39 ID:0zUXjBct.net

WARNING: This is a very, very long post. If you (臭い米国人) or
any other person feels discouraged to read it, please just ignore
my post. No one is obliged to read or respond to it. Thank you.

>>89
>>(1) non-native(s)
>>(2) foreign visitor(s); overseas visitor(s)
>>(3) exchange student(s)
>>(4) foreign tourist(s); overseas tourist(s)

Good. Those sound idiomatic. Thanks for your input. The problem
(people may say, "Not again!") is that in some contexts, I have to
specify those non-natives are people not native to Japan, rather than
to any other country. If you are writing a document as a Japanese
governmental agency, and if you say "nonnatives," then of course
it means "people who are not Japanese."

But in some cases, we may see a document that doesn't specify
who is writing it. But still the document says something along
the lines of "★外国人★の方は〜してください" (which literally means
"Foreigners are requested to do such and such a thing." Since
the document is written in Japanese, readers assume that this
word "外国人" (foreigners) means "people who are not Japanese."

(to be continued on Part 2)

97 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 06:52:41.44 ID:0zUXjBct.net

Part 2

But what if we translate it into English? Can we leave it at
something like "★Foreigners★ are requested to do such and such a thing"?
Remember that the document does not specify who is writing it.
In that case, readers will wonder, "Who are they referring to
as 'foreigners' here?" If the document happens to be in Japan,
then the document is most probably understood to refer to
"people who are not Japanese." But what if the document is
distributed among many different countries -- and by the management
of a company run by Japanese? The author of the document, who
is probably writing under the name of the company's president,
probably assumes that what they mean by 外国人 (foreigners) here
is "people who are not Japanese."

So, when the document happens to be read in, for example, Tanzania,
and if it has been authored by a company run by a Japanese, then
the original phrase "外国人" (foreigners) should (if I understand
it correctly) be translated as "non-Japanese." That's why I am
obliged to translate "外国人" which Japanese people often use
for business purposes (especially for purposes of circulation
outside Japan) into "non-Japanese." The phrase "non-Japanese"
may sound clumsy to native English speakers. I know that in many
contexts, options (1) through (4) that you (臭い米国人) listed above
sound much better and idiomatic . But the problem is that
these contexts may change. You never know in which countries and
in which contexts the document you are translating now may be
used in the future.

(Continued on Part 3)

98 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 06:53:23.10 ID:0zUXjBct.net

Part 3

Now, in conclusion, my question is, does "non-Japanese" in such
contexts still sound un-idiomatic? What about "non-Japanese students,
non-Japanese tourists, non-Japanese visitors, non-Japanese workers,"
and so on?

And what about "workers, products, etc. from outside Japan"?
This phrase "outside Japan" cannot be rejected altogether because
some Japanese companies do request us translators to use although
it may sound a bit funny. If you're in Japan, then the phrase
"overseas" naturally refers to "somewhere outside Japan." But what if
it happens to be in Tanzania or the Netherlands? In that case,
the phrase "overseas" is understood to mean "outside Tanzania or
the Netherlands." But the author of the document in Japanese assumes
that the phrase "海外" is understood as "outside Japan." In that case,
I am obliged to use the phrase "outside Japan" even though it may
sound a bit un-idiomatic in many contexts.

(End of my three-part post)

99 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 10:17:41.07 ID:/mhv+8k1.net

の
ぼ
り
ざ
か
ー
く
だ
り
ざ
か
ー
な
い
て
わ
ら
っ
て
た
の
し
ん
で
ー

100 ：名無しさん＠英語勉強中：2015/10/05(月) 10:45:25.89 ID:/mhv+8k1.net

ち
ゃ
い
な
ま
ね
ー
で
う
る
お
う
に
っ
ぽ
ん
バ
ン
ザ
ー
イ
！